what size lionel transformer do i need what size lionel transformer do i need

Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. Transformer sizing for new systems Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-wattLionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. Actually it was a train show with varied trains of all different eras being run I have mostly MTH trains though and they wouldn't run because the transformer that was running wasn't powerful enough to cycle through my MTH trainsounds. White and black are common selections. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. $7.89 delivery Feb 2 - 6. As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. Price Received. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. And that means theyre affordable. Why Sign In? The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. If you have a starter set and have had thoughts like this, youre not alone. Mark. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. Sign-up for email today! Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. Mike to the forum. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. Serious or fatal injuries may result. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. These systems still require a power supply but it only needs to supply a constant voltage to the rails. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Price Received. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. A rule of thumb from the elders, (I had to go to the mountain top for this one), Add 2 more watts for Spankybird's fun-filled layout! Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. Effort. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. Ill try to find a link to it for you. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. Faq No: 1029 It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. CW80 Transformer. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. In either case, however, voltage and amperage draw is low and peak for only brief periods. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). Extending the Reach of Your Power They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered What does a Lionel transformer do? To participate you must either login or register for an account. Can't plug into outlet? is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. The car on the left is scale, and the one on the right is the classic, underscale size. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. We're sorry. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. Just not quite as much. "What size wire should I use?" If you like, tell us more about yourself. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. I will make a note here. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. (10 lights X . Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. M3103. Plug one of your transformers into each Fixed in. This will solve the slowdown problem. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. I thought an ENGINEER was the guy driving the train? If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. Thanks! Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) If you add a lot of track and find that your train slows down as it gets farther from your transformer, you will need to run jumper wires to the opposite side of your track layout. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . It does not work with O27. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently.