msb discrete dac vs chord dave msb discrete dac vs chord dave

comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick The other issue is preference. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. The DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Specifications: Type: Digital to analogue converter with volume control. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. All rights reserved. Would love to hear your opinions of which was better and why? I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. Complete electrical isolation Chord Dave Replacement. It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). Always use!! One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. As the topic suggests, looking for comparisons on the above Dacs from people who have atleast heard and compared 2 of these dacs. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. Sit back and be immersed. Thank you, Mike. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. We are The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. More to follow. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. It is just as important as the DAC itself. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. Check out the awards + accolades. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. Hmm.. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. Digital inputs : RCA coax, AES/EBU XLR, 2x Toslink optical, 2x module slots, word . Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. It may not display this or other websites correctly. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. The world's largest high-end audio community. The video cannot be shown. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. The headamp is powerful but not involving. Sign up for a new account in our community. Just go for an internal Asus card to fit in a PCI slot you should be able to get bit perfect optical output thanks for confirming suitability of current setup. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. What ice cream do you prefer? As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. CH Precision C1 DAC. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. If you go reference you will never look back. Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. For example, the chassis for the products are made from North American-sourced metals, and then that is machined using Haas CNC machines that are built in California. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9eh61-lampizator-pacific-da-converters, https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/lampizator-pacific-dac/, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/subjective-grading-of-dac-that-i-had-heard-during-last-one-year-period. @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Nothing was amiss. UPnP Protocol Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. You are using an out of date browser. Not sure why you would spend so much on a DAC when the Crane Song Solaris is available at $1,949. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. I can see the problem with this unit. Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. Yes, you read that right, the Select DAC is the best part of 121,000! September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). Fixed. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. I could easily live with any of these. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). Well build a personalized offer for your existing MSB products that count towards a new DAC or amplifier. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. The MSB DAC comes with one external PSU as standard. us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. comes down to knowing what you are actually trying to achieve in a high end Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. Didn't like it at all. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. It's easy! The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. Mola Mola dac and the Total dac. The Discrete DAC we have here is the baby of the four DACs MSB produces, with the top-of-the-range Select DAC boldly proclaiming to be the worlds finest DAC. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) The PSUs are available to match. And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. dac at a reasonable price. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. It would only sound like sales so we I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. My friend who owns the Diamond DAC IV prefers the MSB. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! This ranking is just my subjective thinking. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? It's too damn expensive, full stop. Rori You are using an out of date browser. Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. Stuart Smith finds out. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. Like x 5 List Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! They are all excellent DACs and at that level of performance, it's ultimately about system synergy, personal preferences and the limitations of our hearing. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. luxury apartment hotels paris. $16K Signature DAC sound? turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. Roon Endpoint But it need good system matching. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. Up to 32 bit 768kHz In that price range, you would be mad not to add the MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. JavaScript is disabled. It is worth every penny. johndoe21ro At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. But if you don't, what is your reference point? You must log in or register to reply here. Up to 4X DSD Thirdly, having suggested that the brightness issue may lay elsewhere, I will shortly post a suggested tweak directly to both HMS and DAVE - that I have found to increase the "weight", "solidity" and "analogueness" of the resulting sound. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. It is a manual step which I forgot. Like the Lab12. There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? Is it too hot to touch? It is my name after all! Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. digital front ends. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. I hope you understand. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. You must log in or register to reply here. It's embarrassing. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. What effect does reconstruction filter have? Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system.