test, using all the different primers that we have here. Buy in store-Limit 2. Can you in. Compare Compare Now. Equipment reviews (.243 bullets, 30BR cartridge, 6mm Norma. CCI #250 Large Rifle Magnum Primers (1000) Rated 5.00 out of 5 $ 95.00. A few were of 50 when limited amounts were available. var _gaq = _gaq || []; RockyRaab, the only difference between their list and yours is that they list CCI BR4 and CCI 400 as hotter than FED 200. While working my way through college at a local gun shop, I advised a customer frustrated with his inaccurate handloads to try match-grade primers. If you shoot a .308 Win, or any cartridge that uses a Large Rifle (LR) primer, you should read an important new article by Laurie Holland in Target Shooter Magazine.Holland, a talented shooter from the UK, tested no less than sixteen (16) different . Out of stock. Great article/op. same bullet and brass. My Components; My Loading Data; All User Loading Data; Components . 0000004445 00000 n rifle, chambered for the 338 Lapua. All Primers have a different Brisance. http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/003275.html, [This message has been edited by Dutch (edited 02-08-2002).]. 0000053144 00000 n Some of Lauries results may surprise you. There's not a lot of variance in primer burn rate, only in quantity of powder to burn per primer. I just remembered people liking them. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite." Large Rifle Standard We also wanted to check if cold temperatures have any 18,4. On the 6mm BR forum a guy took a bunch of photos of different primers and measured the flame against a ruler to determine the aggressive rating of the primer. Thanks. And small you have Magnum. 2.7-3.5 .2406, 17 Federal 150 LP 3.11 PSA 300blk with some off brand remanufactered ammo. $7.30. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Which is better for muzzleloading, large rifle primers or 209 primers?There are many different types of muzzleloader ignit. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6, but with a thicker cup. We picked this load because it shot reasonably A few Rifle Calibers; Rifle Recoil Table; Handgun Caliber Chart; Handgun Recoil Chart; Caliber Comparisons; Ammo Size Chart; Shot Size Chart; . Doesn't appear to work. Buy Reloading > Components > Primers - Gun City are the leading firearms experts in New Zealand. only the velocity is the average of the three groups above it. Cases larger than that we normally used magnum primers. Read more. Your first post mentioned measuring the depth of the primers, and to my way of looking at the world, that . 0000028191 00000 n You may not reproduce original text or photos without advanced permission in writing. (Heat) and cause different powders to react differently. Three shot groups. 0 SR = Small Rifle . Large Rifle = LR, Large Rifle Magnum = LRM, Large pistol =LP, Brand/type Power Average Range Std. Or standard when choosing a primer the. Interesting and informative article but it raises a couple questions in regards to Rem 6 1/2 that I've been unable to answer this far. What changed about the 6 1/2 to suddenly make it suitable only for low pressure cartridges? really see any indication from the above test to change that. @(aO 0{!{:8:@T @1fpQ{3W=97,_:Xr"Ck&efS cH Se 'Berdan' and 'Boxer' layouts and primer components. 0000003606 00000 n different case sizes. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/77010865, http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=654&id=50, http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html. I noticed they listed James Calhoon in that article. Mother of All LR Primer Tests average of all the 4 groups above it. Warning: Some published data calls for Large Rifle primers, though this brass was designed for, and most data is for Large Pistol primers. This shows the pointer after a shot has been fired. 4 Accurate Arms Nitro 100 39 IMR, Co SR 4756. Primers are tested for reliability from -20 degrees F to +150 degrees F. CCI BR2 Large Rifle Primer 100-Pack $ 13 99 13 dollars 99 cents. CCI Aps BR2 Large Rifle Benchrest (1000) $ 135.00. 40,5. Bullets; Primers; . They used the same hulls, the same powder, powder charge, shot, shot charge, wad, and reloaded them on the same reloader. Three shot groups. Are Wolf Primers still consistent? The Effects Of Dev . 0000010068 00000 n in a Ruger Target model rifle. Three shot groups. Thank you very much for your efforts in providing this excellent article. It has a Hart barrel #5 and a Three shot groups. 3 VihtaVuori N310 38 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X. The following are with 75 grains of Reloader 19. 338 Lapua size. We thought of trying 3 different powders in each case Store For Availability. 0000015264 00000 n 0000054298 00000 n Different Primers On The Load. Seating the Large Rifle primers in a standard Large Pistol pocket may cause high primers . 10. 4.0-5.0 .2460, 11 CCI 200 LR 4.28 Three shot groups. This is where the similarity ends. Cameron. Laurie loaded .308 Win ammo* with 16 LR primer varieties and then tested for average velocity, ES/SD, and group size. The standard primer types are pistol, pistol magnum, rifle, and rifle magnum. So, don't take this as gospel but as a rough indicator. It is relative to this set of tests and this tester. By contrast to the Fiocchis, they were an almost slack fit in the cases and this may have contributed to their consistent performance. Laurie Holland. The following loads with 63 grains of H870, same bullet and I only remember that there wasn't a heckuva lot of difference in any of them, until you start comparing one end of the list against the opposite. Does anyone have any information regarding the characteristics of S & B primers and how they compare to the other primer brands described above? . Between these two extremes are Large Rifle primers of almost any brisance level. 41 - Small Military Rifle Primers | 1,000 Count $ 119.99 $ 99.99. I took four large pistol primers (CCI 300's), four large rifle primers (CCI 200's) and four large rifle bench rest primers (CCI BR-2's) and measured the width and depth of all three primer types. However, I have seen or heard of many examples where the the primer that gave the best results might not have been the one that would have been intuitively picked based on its brisance. The 7.6254mmR is a rimmed rifle cartridge developed by the Russian Empire and introduced as a service cartridge in 1891. Primer with Smallest Group Size: Remington 9 LR (0.43 average, three 5-shot groups) of extruded Hodgdon H4831. Come join the discussion about performance, gunsmithing, troubleshooting, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The main question that remains for me is how the primers results might vary between different cartridges, bullet weights, and powder loads. hbbd```b``:"gI~ 2.l#0qd f$3|{ 4 t!.>%DBvv Now, I tend to read pressure signs from my primers first. Thats counter-intuitive and its odd that Rems were at opposite ends of the speed spectrum among ALL primers tested. It is beyond question that switching primers can often improve (lower) ES/SD with a given load. The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. Depending on your needs and expectations, they may be worth the extra cost. Almost forgot, Saeed has some data too http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html, ------------------"it is up to God to judge these terrorists; it is up to us to arrange their meeting" Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, [This message has been edited by R-WEST (edited 02-09-2002).]. Total group size variance (from best to worst) was 0.27. 2829 0 obj <> endobj 0000015415 00000 n Are there any primer hotness charts here? this with the others. hb```,? At .020' thick cup metal, these primers are minimal, at best, for light .223 Remington loads. I did not test the 210M. 6mmBR.com is the best guide for 6mm BR Benchrest precision shooting, complete with 6BR FAQ, Reloading Data, Shooter Message Boards, Reader Polls, and Photo Gallery. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Heat of explosion per gram is similar as well. 0000027640 00000 n We thought we would run our own test, using all the different primers that we have here. Buy in store-Limit 2. And standard primers. Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. 3.8-4.8 .3218, 12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27 3.8-4.8 .2213, 13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old) 4.16 3.8-4.8 .3427, 14 Rem LP 4.47 Large rifle primers all appear to have the same cup thickness, no matter what the type. Posted: 5/29/2018 9:45:54 PM EST. Out-of-Stock. Read more; CCI Aps BR4 Small Rifle Benchrest (1000) $ 135.00. Powder Burn Rate Chart; Primer Manufacturer Chart; Shellholder Chart; Bullet Abbreviations; User Loading Data. If the brass has a large. I'm am not doing this again! Primer Testing Reference You will see a large difference if you go from a large rifle primer to a magnum primer so look at primer Brisance. #4. A final part of the test took a small number of the best performers and ran them in my primary 155.5gn Berger BT Fullbore / IMR-8208 XBR load without the MagnetoSpeed on to see what they did to groups without a load-retune against my usual CCI-BR4 load and to see if they would cope OK with 60,000 psi pressure. Editors Comment: Laurie shot three, 5-shot groups at 100 yards with each primer type. I am using RCBS bench priming tool model 9460 link here: Strange that Lyman is a #2 and RCBS is #3 shell holder. borrowed. Results are much closer than with the LR primers and again there was a surprise winner (CBC Magtech 7 1/2). WSL. In that post, Hoogs mentions that even a CCI Large Rifle Magnum left a noticeable amount of unburnt powder in his 460 loads using W296. Credit should also be given to Target Shooter Magazine for publishing the results. 0000053767 00000 n Small pistol and rifle primers utilize a cup 0.175" in diameter, while large pistol and rifle primers measure 0.210" across. The following loads were shot in a Remington 700 chambered _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); Three shot hb``Pc`` I have Federal 210 primers(only 30 or so) but my local store also has Fed 210M primers. 2847 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/ID[<17398BDBD67F214CBB3755FAA4BE7340><20967B39C4AB1349BB25AF309099C3A9>]/Index[2829 26]/Info 2828 0 R/Length 94/Prev 197341/Root 2830 0 R/Size 2855/Type/XRef/W[1 3 1]>>stream 0000028040 00000 n Their magnum LR primer is the F215. Shotgun (209) CCI - 209. Laurie Simply outstanding work and write-up as I always expect when you are involved! here that there is nothing scientific about this experiment. A good question Clive! I finally had a primer fail, just last week. I would like to state Small pistol primers - which are about the same size as small rifle primers but designed specifically for handguns. Federal Large Rifle Magnum #215M Gold Medal Match Primers | 1,000 Count. LRM = Large Rifle Mag . Or if they are so constantly tweaking their formulas and mixes that the information we're looking for is too much of a moving target. Size Large. Hi Laurie, your comment re S&Bs slack fit raises my question. If you are shooting a 22 Cooper, Hornet, or a Bee, the .020" cup will perform admirably. We know that major seating faults definitely have an effect, but do minor variations in seating tension too? This is on a DMS (don't mean squat) scale. $47.99: NA: Notify: Midway: Winchester Large Rifle Magnum Primers 8-1/2M. the frozen ones. 0000005537 00000 n Handloader Magazine does it every once in a while. The Murom KVB-7 or KVB-7M should be the Wolf LR-M under a different name. Holland, a talented shooter from the UK, tested no less than sixteen (16) different large primer types using a custom F-TR target rifle shot from the bench. $115.00. I use cci 400 for my AR with great success ! I am keen to understand how the Sellior and Bellots went ,not sure on some of the abbreviations.Sellior and bellot are becoming quite common place in Australia,though I havent seen many reviews as to their primers,as they are the cheapest ,they may not always be the best.currently running up loads of Swede using 2209 and Sierra 123hpbt. . While searching around for some info I stumbled on to this thread and its too good not to share. Very interesting. Primer Size Chart . As an aside, a couple of years ago, shortmags.org published a list of primers from hottest to coolest. The Rem's had some very wild shots high and low. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. How critical is the primer seating mechanism? The average group size for the top six primers varied by only 0.10 (0.43 to 0.53), so one cant conclude that one type is much better than another. $11.99. Lyman & Nosler classify this as a standard primer, but Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify it as a small rifle magnum primer. My experience with the small rifle primers is just the opposite. We got them as PMC brand here until that company disappeared and when we get them nowadays, which is rarely, they use the Russian manufacturers name, Murom. Remington AmmunitionRemington Large Rifle Magnum Primers #9-1/2M Box of 1000. Click Photo to read full test results in Target Shooter Magazine. Keep them all the same. In the recent past I had been using BR-4's but have found the extra flash from #41's to give me slightly better groups at 1k. This charge fills the case to about half It is a standard factory issue; we bedded the But if you cant spare the time right now, here are some highlights below: Primer with Lowest Velocity: Remington 9 M Magnum (2780 fps) In Winchester testing labs, primers are constantly and rigorously tested for consistency and sensitivity at temperatures and conditions far beyond the range of normal usage. There are primer Brisance test that rate primers by there brisance (Heat) but as far as I know no one has checked them for heat sensitivity. We used Lapua brass and the Even though they dont recommend it? Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. However, if the trends among the primers you tested hold true across a wide variety of different powders and cartridges, it would greatly facilitate selecting a small number of different primers to keep on hand to test in the event that the first choice was unsatisfactory. 0000000016 00000 n Add to Wishlist. NOTE: This data is reference only. $12.99. Both for 6.5 CM. 210 Large Rifle Primers - 100 Count. For this we would leave some loaded rounds in the freezer, and NOTE: Values in chart are based on 15-Shot strings. I did not put in the individual comments. Large Rifle Primers Fed 215 WLRM CCI 250 Rem 9 M WLR F210 CCI BR2 CCI 200 Rem 9 Small Rifle Primers Fed 205 Rem 7 WSRM Fed 200 WSR CCI BR4 CCI 400 Rem 6 1/2 This testing was done to try and rank primers by power (brisance). All the following loads were with the Berger 85 grain 0000076644 00000 n In early black powder guns such as muzzleloaders, the primer was essentially the same chemical as the main propellant (albeit usually in a finer-powdered form), but poured into an external flash . The following loads were shot in a Sako TRG-41 target To date, the best I approach have seen is that it is wise to have several primers that cover a range of brisance and simply test them empirically to find the one that works best with a particular load. firing 15 Nosler 130-gr. This is interesting, according to this, Federal Gold Metal MatchKing 308 ammo should not be shot in a AR10 or 308 platform. Primer with Lowest ES/SD: Sellier & Bellot LR (12/3.1 fps) Primer sizes can be broken down as follows: Small rifle primers - which are about .175 inches in diameter and .120 inches tall. The following loads were with 48 grains of VVN 550 powder, The Test. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. PRODUCT No: TYPE OF PRIMER USED FOR PCS PER BOX Take them with a grain of salt and as a guide only. Despite the nomenclature, this primer is appropriate for some extremely high pressure pistol cartridges, such as the .221 Fireball and the .357 Maximum. 0000153414 00000 n 0000002481 00000 n Originally designed for the bolt-action Mosin-Nagant rifle, it was used during the late tsarist era and throughout the Soviet period to the present day. 0000027388 00000 n Thanks OP for posting. Reloaders know that primers come in various designations: large pistol vs small pistol, large rifle vs small rifle, etc. - Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at higher pressures (55,000 psi) should use CCI 450, CCI BR4, Fed 205 and Rem 7 1/2. Five round with the RWS primers hang fired, including 2 of A write-up will be done soon. The amount of work involved to do the same test as you conducted herein would be immense, which is probably why it has never been published together as a single body of work. Up to 6,000 psi difference just by changing primer brands. Rated 4.80 out of 5 $ 105.00. bullet, 55 grains of Reloader 19, in Winchester brass. to be similar in burning rate. temperatures. Sierra 300 grain Match King bullet. Let us start with Large Rifle Primers (LRP) vs Large Pistol Primers (LPP). In firearms and artillery, the primer (/ p r a m r /) is the chemical and/or device responsible for initiating the propellant combustion that will push the projectiles out of the gun barrel.. All 3 round with the RWS primer had hang fired. All the following groups were 3 shots at 100 yards, I wrote It was also years ago and things may have changed. following primers in our possession. Clive. The shot is fired against a weight which in turn moves a pointer. I usually buy several sizes and types of primers in lots of 5000, or 10,000 about once every year or so, as I do most of the reloading for out hunt group,Its not unusually to knock out a couple hundred cartridges in an evening with my dillion reloaders). Does anyone have or know of a chart that lists primers from the hottest to the lightest? July 21, 2020 By Joseph von Benedikt. TYPE OF PRIMER USED FOR PCS PER GRATING GRATINGS PER BOX BOXES PER CASE WEIGHT PER CASE; kg lb; V360157: Small Pistol 4,4 Boxer: . The following are the results of a 308 Winchester, shot in So, the short version is, use the primer recommended in the recipe. Found this from offsite search, exactly the information I need. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. })(); To comment on a post, click Post Title or "Comment" Link. Sale! Rifle Calibers; Rifle Recoil Table; Handgun Caliber Chart; Handgun Recoil Chart; Caliber Comparisons; Ammo Size Chart; Shot Size Chart; . McMillan synthetic stock. One (minor) reason that small primer brass may be better than many standard LR types is that it usually noticeably easier to seat SR primers and to get good feel on their contacting the pocket floor. The last row in each table shows the Large rifle primers all come with one brass thickness, a nominal 0.027" (unlike small rifle primers which vary from 0.020" to 0.025" depending on make/type). This is an important test, with significant findings. Federal Champion No. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. We are here to talk about primers. see how these components would perform under the conditions stated here. At the other end of the cartridge scale, 2.7 grains of Bullseye, a 148-grain lead wadcutter, and regular Small Pistol primers make up my .38 Special target ammo. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 0000001395 00000 n 2 Winchester WAALite 37 VihtaVuori N340. Trying to decide which primers to buy next. for the 300 Weatherby magnum. things might turn out. LP = Large Pistol . Most basic there are large rifle primers. It was topped with a Leupold 6.5-20X scope in Leupold I don't have a link to the site , but 6mmbench rest.com or one of those type sites have extensive pages on standard primers. 0000077015 00000 n startxref If you used my "Benchmark/Baseline/95% Solution" load method, you'd know in a few shots if your new primer choice was hotter, cooler or the same. I found this a while back but it seems it goes against the Win primers being hotter than the CCI. Primer with Highest Velocity: Remington 9 LR (2815 fps) brass. I made one up for rifles cartridges once, for my own use but the method I used isn't very scientific so it might not be valid. So my question is whether you would expect to see a very similar trend among the primers you tested with other cartridges and/or bullet weights commonly used in F-TR or F-Open? Note the spreads. $5.19. Thank you, Large Rifle 5,3 Boxer: Rifle cartridges 5,652 R and cal. His varmint bullets are absolutely fantastic. 50 BMG (BMG) CCI - No.35. There's not a lot of variance in primer burn rate, only in quantity of powder to burn per primer. var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true; When I use the press the primers are seated harder.In your opinion would there be a difference in ES because of the seating mechanism? chart, http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/, http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm. This would give us some sort of idea of how they perform in Of the others, there WAS a relation between weight and power. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. 0000002213 00000 n This is the home made tester. We thought we would run our own Good read! were weighed. Within the large rifle primers, I've found the Winchester WLR and Federal 210 to be the hottest, and the Remington 9 to deliver the least heat, with the CCI200 somewhere in between. 0000027119 00000 n For this test, I used previously necked up and fireformed Norma 22-250 brass, body sized with a custom Redding . HTH, Dutch. - All the large rifle primers measured have the same thickness. effects on this. Take them with a grain of salt and as a guide only. Closed the bolt and off she went. It will still fire, but they get fliers and open groups. Sep 9, 2009. In fact, from testing I and others have done, it almost seems to be capricious in nature, and therefore unpredictable as to which primer(s) might be the best alternatives to test when one is not giving satisfactory results. The Wolf Small rifle with the copper cup I've had failure to fire with my light striking bolt guns, but they go bang every time in my ar15. Great info. Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. 506 42 0000004308 00000 n 22661. In part 1 of my Large Rifle Comparison I take a look at each manufacturer's particular primer and give a quick overview. shoot them as a group, noting both the velocity and the accuracy, and compare The only primer power chart I have ever seen published was in an NRA American Rifleman article in 1984. I learned Cci 400 and cci 550 are the same! Leupold LPS 3.5-14X scope in Sako mounts on it. It has no pistol primers, but if you look at the difference between the Remington 6 1/2 and 7 1/2, that's pretty typical of the difference between a standard rifle and a magnum rifle primer, though the material the 6 1/2 is stamped from is softer than the CCI of the same thickness and is known to leak gas if it is used in the .223. $ 249.99. xref Very good read. _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); This another thing to consider in shooting. We just wanted to Great OP. This may be the most comprehensive and thorough LR primer test ever done. 0000001728 00000 n Rifle cartridges 5,652 R and cal. His subsequent usage of Winchester Large Rifle standard lit all his powder. We were using standard large rifle primers for all cases up 10.3x60mm Rimmed LR Swiss 10mm Auto LP 11x59mm Rimmed LR French Gras 43 Mauser 17 Hornet SR This is likely a matter of conjecture. The new Russian Remington 7 - The only primer specifically marketed by Remington as "benchrest" quality. CCI "APS" Large Rifle Primers Strip . CCI No. The following are the results of the 25-06 Remington, shot It has a 27-inch barrel, and we installed a Federal Gold Medal Large Magnum Rifle Primer - 100 Ct. $9.39. size, one of which would be a ball powder. We re Those extra heavy tended to be stronger, and light were weaker. What is the pressure of a .44mag? [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Primer burn rate(?) If you shoot a .308 Win, or any cartridge that uses a Large Rifle (LR) primer, you should read an important article by Laurie Holland in Target Shooter Magazine. Winchester works to make sure all primers are reliable, instant and precise. I have never looked at primers apart from reliability. An old rule of thumb suggests the use of magnum primers any time the powder charge is 60 grains or more. The following are with 95 H 5010. we will try it to see how it performs. Since then almost every company has changed their primers. Match King bullet, molly coated.